STABBING OF A PCSO
I felt it was necessary to post on this subject for several reasons.
For a start PC Bloggs has posted the details and given readers the option to make a vote as to if PSCO’s should be sacked or if we expect too much of them. I feel I wanted to be able to add some thoughts to these options.
First and foremost as far as I am concerned this is a terrible incident that I feel no different about than if it were a sworn officer who had been injured.
But I want to make a clear point about how I feel the government should take a certain amount of responsibility for placing the officer in such a position in the first place.
PCSO’s are NOT trained to deal with such a violent incident and are not expected to be put in a confrontational situation, or so we are lead to believe.
This officer has no stab vest on at the time, and I know it would have made no difference being that he was injured in the neck area. What would we have been saying if he had been stabbed in the chest or stomach?
It was only a matter of time before something like this was going to happen!
Many of the public do NOT know the difference between a PC and a PCSO, this alone offers a certain amount of risk.
If a PCSO is going to be attending a place where they are going to be offering another agency some kind of support because there may be some kind of altercation then this is clearly a risk.
The government need to decide just what they expect a PCSO to do and what they want them to be.
This was clearly a job for a Police officer not a community officer!!
And at the end of the day this could happen anywhere on the streets, if someone sees the PCSO as a member of the Police force they may act with aggression.
This is not an opportunity to have a go at the PCSO’s!!!
This is an opportunity to have a go at the government and another of their half baked ideas of saving money on Policing, or any other emergency service.
December 5, 2006 at 12:42 am
The Police have long bent over and taken every dicktat from the home office, so long as the pay was ok.
The police should declare their independence, like the judiciary do.
The government need the support of the Police more than they need judicial favour.
If you (the Police) are independent, then why listen to anything other than public opinion.
Public support for the Police is overwhelming. The Police allow this support to be subverted by cronyism.
PCSOs are the perfect example. Noone asked for them, everyone asked for more Police on the beat.
Politicians showed such contempt that they invented Police with civilian powers.
The Police grumbled under their breath. Pathetic!
December 5, 2006 at 8:47 am
dammit delete my last post please – thought I had that PCSO blog open! apologies although it is implied in their blog.
December 5, 2006 at 10:48 am
everyone in the job knows that the role of PCSO’s is gradualy being increased on the quiet. why pay a copper £30k when you can pay a wanna be copper £20k? And all the time our weak Police Fed stand by arranging an increase in our monthly subs and arranging their next weekend conference to pat themselves on the backs for getting us stab vests! well you wear the stab vest i would rather have pay rise like the MP’s!!!!
December 5, 2006 at 11:10 am
Ok no one wanted pcso’s but that dosent make us wanna be cops if that was the case i would have joined up this job it difficult enough without people like you calling us i can only speak for myself when i say the officers i work with are respectful and helpful to everything me and my Colleagues do.
December 5, 2006 at 10:53 pm
Dear PCSO. A PCSO represents the police service. The end.
Mrs smith from 82 Acacia Avenue thinks the same, even when you carry her shopping home and offering advice on her window locks.
She thinks the same as Jack Slag, the one who abuses you in the street as you walk by, the one who would stab you in a second, just like he would a PC if he was cornered. don’t kid yourself. You represent Authority and Law….. That was the plan… it still is…. the risks will never go away, no matter how much good work you do!
December 6, 2006 at 12:47 pm
It’s a sad fact that all kinds of people who have regular contact with angry or unstable members of the public can be at risk. Remember the planning officer who was shot and killed some years ago as he served notice to a man who had built without permission?
As we all know, it’s the job where you don’t expect trouble that often turns out to be the most dangerous. (that’s why policy such as single crewing is so preposterous).
Personally I wish we didn’t need PCSOs. I wish there were more Police officers to go around but there aren’t andnow there here I suspect they’ll stay.
What I do like is being relieved of some of the more low level incidents Iused to have to deal with. Drunk kids, mad dogs and bonfires. As long as someone is willing to get on with these then fine, better them than me.
December 6, 2006 at 12:51 pm
Please excuse my spelling in last. I’m tired. Also forgot to say my thoughts are always with any colleague who comes to harm and with their family. I wish Mr Etchells a speedy recovery.
December 6, 2006 at 5:30 pm
As a controller myself I have to wonder why the psco was despatched to such a potential confrontation situation. Then again I can also image the pressure on the despatch to send one of the two police officers to it and probably got left with little choice than the psco. The psco’s are ok for the community issues but what is really needed is police officers. When is the home office going to realise this!
December 6, 2006 at 6:46 pm
We all know that PCSOs will eventually take over the role of the constable. As a serving officer I resent this. However, in my mind, a colleague is a colleague no matter what colour uniform they wear. My thoughts too are with him and his family.
What we need is for the politicians in their goldfish bowl in Whitehall to experience a couple of my town’s finest peeing on their doorstep, keying their car or mugging them. Maybe then we’d get tougher sentences, magistrates with backbones and a few more prisons.
December 6, 2006 at 7:34 pm
Can’t post on Semper Fi due to technical difficulties, so I will say it here. The Dog With Ginger Eyebrows has closed the Semper down. These are shadowy men from shadowy planets. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – Never trust a dog with ginger eyebrows. Semper, I hope you read this. RIP.
December 6, 2006 at 10:44 pm
In addition to this incident another PCSO has been bottled in the face, in Bristol.
Looks like a trend is being set.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/6215834.stm
December 7, 2006 at 7:28 am
I sincerely hope that the PCSO recovers and is OK. The PCSO’s on my patch are excellent, most of them end up in the job, and we try and make them welcome. However, I don’t like the original idea and I think there are sinister motives behind it.
December 7, 2006 at 7:08 pm
I have just e-mailed sergeant says over this very matter.
please do not take offence over this but……
why are you blaming this government?
It’s all I read from you all.
December 7, 2006 at 7:58 pm
Annette,
we blame the government because they introduced the role of PCSO which, rightly or wrongly is percieved by many to be policing on the cheap. We blame them because they haven’t clearly defined the PCSOs role so undertrained staff are sent into situations of conflict without the right skills or equipment. We blame them for introducing performance indicators which tie us up with hitting meaningless targets rather than dealing with real problems. We blame them for fighting us every inch of the way on our pay deal this year. We blame them for not being tough on crime or the causes of crime. We blame them for making the process more important than the people, the criminal better served than the victim.
Most of all I blame myself. I voted for them.
December 9, 2006 at 8:16 am
Mr and Mrs Smith, when looking at PCSO’s have a very similar view as Mr and Mrs Criminal: If it says POLICE on the tin, that’s exactly what it is, and then anything is fair game!
Police Officers are trained to deal with conflict and aggression, PCSO’s aren’t. The only way we’ll make the job safe for PCSO’s will be to educate the public of their role. But then we’ve been trying to educate the public not to commit crime for years, and we’re still not performing too well in that area. When the public asked for more Police they should have been given them, not a civilian version. That said, PCSO’s can do a very good job if utilised in the right way, but too many forces have had to use then as a cost effective means of increasing Police visability.
December 9, 2006 at 1:15 pm
The PCSO was presumably tasked to this job for a reason?..let’s assume this reason was to offer some personal safety to those present or ensure there was no breach of the peace ie: someone threatening to harm someone else or their property?..I cant think of another reason to task him there although the BBC say he was the one serving an eviction notice?..anyway the point is this task clearly had the potential for ‘confrontation’ A chimpanzee would have realised that from the outset…so why was he there?..why did he agree to attend (they have Unison dont forget)..why didnt the control room supervisor recognise the situation (civvy perhaps?)..why wasn’t wearing the correct protective equipment?..no doubt there will be a ‘hot wash up’ in some senior management meeting..the duty inspector will probably get a bollocking..senior officers will go on telly and say how fantastically valuable pcso’s are..our thoughts are with the family etc etc..clearly the guy was totally incapable of protecting himself not only the public..not his fault entirely..he’s a product of the governemnts vision of the future of policing..it’s on the cheap but a false economy..I disagree with the comment that we need more police officers..I think we have enough..we always did have…what we need is more police on the streets not in a HQ department or sitting at a computer keyboard in the nick (with body armour on..we do don’t we!)filling out endless crappy forms to support the admin clerks and promotion junkies coming up with diversity strategies or ‘dealing’ with domestic violence issues from the comfortable surroundings of the world of pot plants and air conditioning..pass the coffee Charles I need to send an email about this stabbing business..what’s his name again?
December 9, 2006 at 5:20 pm
I agree with section 5 on this matter!
There are lots of us sat behind computers while wearing body armor.
Maybe we are like coiled springs waiting for that shout to go and do what we all joined up for.
How can anyone say that PCSO’s are not to become engaged in any confrontation. Any job can be confrontational, especially where enforcing any kind of law, even seizing of alcohol.
The government need to make the decision, do we need more Police on the streets or someone who looks like a Police officer but really isn’t.
I predict more injured PCSO’s or worse!
What will it take for them to take notice of those that know!!
After all what do politicians know about Police work on the streets?
December 9, 2006 at 7:28 pm
South west. I suspect the government couldn’t give a hoot if a few PCSOs get hurt. As long as it’s not enough to tip the balance of public opinion. Actually, I don’t think policy should be swayed by such incidents. I think bad policy is better than no policy at all.
I do think that the spineless wonders that are our chief constables should spend less time rolling over at every home office whim, grow a collective (and figurative, for the ladies) pair and tell Dr Reid where to get off with deploying more and more PCSOs in this manner.
December 12, 2006 at 12:17 pm
As I have said before we will never lose PCSOs because their implementation has gone several stages too far. As with my regular colleagues, I know of some good PCSOs and some bad ones. Would it be so bad if the PCSO role is enhanced and they get a CASCO and pava or whatever? I believe PCSOs will eventually grow to take on routine foot patrol and minor crime (PND anyone) PCs take on more and more specialist tasks which take them further away from the day to day thankless grind of core shift policing.
I for one wouldn’t mind. What I resent is that they are currently paid more than a probationer and do but a tiny fraction of the work we do – but maybe that’s just my force.
To finish with an anecdote, my mother ran into a PCSO buying lunch in a local Supermarket. When asked by the cashier if he was a Policeman, he replied in a loud and magnanimous fashion that no he wasn’t but that he did everything a Policeman did but make arrests. Mrs Butler needless to say laughed and proceeded to probe the unfortunate fellow on his views surrounding his role development and so on with the result that the chap was somewhat deflated. Well done Mrs B
December 16, 2006 at 9:23 pm
This is happening everywhere else as well ; “High level teaching assistants/Cover Supervisors” and “Nurse Practitioners” are el cheapo replacements for qualified teachers and doctors.
As with HLTA/CS and NPs it is salami tactics ; it starts of as “occasional assistance” and slides into doing the full job of a copper (in this case) for little or no money. They will steadily replace coppers (as you can probably get 2 PSCOs for 1 PC). They will get “more powers” to help with the “problems”.
One thing ; haven’t we had CSOs for a while ? Are they just now called PSCOs so Bliar can claim there are “more” “Police” ?
December 16, 2006 at 9:57 pm
I think you are correct, this is a government plot to bring about a two tier police service that will eventually replace the bobby on the streets.
However I feel a wind of change is on its way. The public are not stupid and I feel they are on our side. With pressure from blogs and books by Dave Copperfield and soon to be Inspector Gadget, we can tell the tax payers the truth about how they are being short changed by the Government.
March 27, 2007 at 5:38 pm
a nice victory for the ordinary man on the street.
let hope the dirty pig dies in pain.
love to buy the guys that did him a beer.
March 27, 2007 at 7:07 pm
Anonymous you really have a way with words don’t you.
Your low level of intelligence has let you down again here. I suppose I should feel sorry for you, but I don’t.
This happened a rather long time ago and the PCSO didn’t die.
And I too would like to see you buy the bloke who did it a drink!!
You could share his cell at the same time, because he is where he should be, HMP.